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EPA engineer says U.S. is not likely to reach mandated 54 mpg by 2025

GasBuddy Blog -- Coming on the heels of the President Obama's State of the Union address last week, I was startled by the candor with which Jeff Alson, one of the EPA's senior engineers, spoke when he was interviewed by Nathan Bomey of the Detroit Free Press. Apparently USA TODAY was pretty surprised because they published it too.

Alson said Americans can expect to pay about $2,600 more on average for a new vehicle in 2025 in automakers if automakers hope to achieve the 54 mph corporate average fuel economy that has been EPA mandated by 2025.

Contrary to the president's comments advocating to "shift our cars and trucks off oil for good" Alson said that's not likely to happen; 9 out of 10 of those cars (in 2025) will still be running on...


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Submitted Feb 20, 2013 By: PD
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Author Topic: EPA engineer says U.S. is not likely to reach mandated 54 mpg by 2025 Back to Topics
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borsht
Champion Author Oakland

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Message Posted: Apr 27, 2013 3:34:19 PM

The EPA needs to focus on real issues'
They mandate that by 2025 we must meet 54mpg.
Also they want to mandate oxygenated fuel.
If they decide to push for E85, they surely will not get 54mpg.
It appears more and more that the inmates are running the asylum.
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mdr46
Veteran Author Maryland

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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2013 3:28:08 PM

I'd like to know how the EPA comes up with these MPG numbers. Do they really think that everyone wants to drive around a small econobox? It may be possible to get 40MPG with a small lightweight vehicle, but what about a larger heavy vehicle like a truck that needs a larger engine for carrying payload or towing? Good luck trying to get 40MPG from that.
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Donatelo
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 10:18:22 AM

change all diesel engines over to natural gas(propane), and use our own resources. converting a diesel to run propane is a fairly easy process, we have plenty of natural gas reserves if we also use what we have on public lands.
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99dakota
Champion Author Providence

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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2013 6:42:26 AM

There is plenty of oil out there... We just need to go out and get it!
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Bttlecat
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2013 1:52:53 AM

"shift our cars and trucks off oil for good." How about shifting this nation out of reverse and put it into a forward gear?
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priver
All-Star Author Alberta

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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2013 9:32:02 AM

never say never
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131rnmom
Rookie Author Pittsburgh

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2013 1:16:52 AM

We must have 4wheel drive vehicles to get in and out of our access driveway. 9 out of 16 of the vehicles owed by neighbors are 4wh drive. We get. 11-13 miles per gallon. The new mandated 54mpg would be a blessing but thats only for the types of cars that prevent us from actually reaching home. Would be nice if 4wh drive vehicles were included!
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paulweb
Champion Author Ohio

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Message Posted: Feb 24, 2013 11:16:09 AM

EPA mandates fuel standards; but will the vehicles be as safe as today?
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Mypennygas
Rookie Author Sarasota

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 8:47:04 PM

Hey Guys mypennygas.com is doing a free gas giveaway tonight.
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fuzzyscout
All-Star Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 9:35:50 AM

You can only predict events after they've happened. -- Eugene Ionesco
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sonicmustang
All-Star Author Alberta

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Message Posted: Feb 22, 2013 12:41:44 AM

Too bad
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hskerven
Sophomore Author Wisconsin

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:36:53 PM

They could of been making more fuel efficient cars 20 years ago but every ones to busy Jackn each other off
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phpearso
Sophomore Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 7:26:20 PM

***Are you saying 53% of the adults in this country are idiots?***

Hmmmm.... Getting warmer.
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phpearso
Sophomore Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 7:23:44 PM

by 2025 we should not need to get 54 mpg.!
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thorman52
Champion Author South Bend

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 5:42:14 PM

So, what's the bottom line? We want vehicles that get 100 mpg and want to pay 50 cents a gallon. Ain't gonna happen. The price at the pump will never see an average of $3.00 a gallon or lower ever again. As vehicles become more fuel efficient and the supply of oil steadily decrease, demand decreases and prices will increase.

The reasons for high gas prices are many and complicated. Like blaming the President, regardless of who's in the White House at the time. Some in this forum blame the current President for everything that is going wrong in the USA today (and refuse to see what's going right). If that were true wouldn’t he have been impeached a long time ago? If that were true how did he get re-elected? Are you saying 53% of the adults in this country are idiots? Quite a claim.

Blaming Congress is closer but even Congress doesn't wave any magic wand to control prices. But they do legislate or ignore legislation that affects the price of gas. Get the big oil lobbyists away from Capitol Hill and maybe Congress will act in the best interests of the people who elected them rather than lining their pockets and those of big oil.

Blame the EPA. One poster stated that they pull figures out of thin air. How ridiculous can you get? I'm confident that the EPA has very competent engineers doing the math. Their mission is to monitor, compile facts and figures, and enforcement that can affect the gas mileage of vehicles. Then when Congress passes legislation the EPA will enforce that legislation. They have no independent input on what you pay at the pump. Seems some people need to educate themselves as to how the government works and who has what responsibilities. “A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.”
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GatorGuy
Champion Author Columbia

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 3:50:29 PM

Yeah, I never thought that was realistic...even if it was achievable it would make vehicles too costly to where nobody could afford one.
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lyanMI
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 3:28:12 PM

I have my doubts too.
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EMoe57
Champion Author Jacksonville

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 1:15:00 PM

Can't reach it if you don't even try!
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briandbec
Champion Author Tucson

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:15:11 AM

54mpg (EPA stds are not the window-sticker stds - they tend to create bigger numbers from the same results) is entirely achievable. But it means we as a nation have to get used to taking longer than 12 sec to get from 0-60 mph.

If they put a 1.4L turbo diesel in a Camry today, it would get 54mpg pretty easily. It would be so slow no one would buy it.
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sleuth696
Champion Author Nashville

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:14:20 AM

Refreshing to see someone from EPA tell the truth. Unfortunately, he'll be gone because he didn't toe the line.
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bridgerunner
Champion Author Virginia

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:13:36 AM

Not gonna happen!
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badharley
Champion Author Tampa

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:13:32 AM

Won't be able to afford a new car then.
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rual817
Sophomore Author Dallas

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:12:00 AM

What we need to do is get away from gasoline and use a more efficient diesel. Diesel produces more BTU than gasoline.
I drive a 2000 VW Jetta TDI new only produced 90hp, but LOTS of low end torque which helps pulling and take-off. I get a combined 37.3mpg (34c-41h) on 50+ tanks (tracked by fuelly.com). VW current 2.0 TDI produces about the same numbers, or very slightly better Fuel Economy and better HP/Torque.
VW just unveiled their NEW 1.6 TDI, which the HP/Torque will fall between the 1.9 and 2.0, and will blow the doors off EVERTHING with their Fuel Economy. Tested @ 74mpg combined. That makes it mid 60’s city /low 80’s highway. This is NOT a hybrid, but a full Diesel set-up, and today’s diesel cars are quieter than they used to be.
Yes… Diesel is more per gallon, but when you factor Fuel Economy, mine is cheaper than most gas cars. At current prices, $3.699 gas / $3.999 diesel, here are the numbers.
$3.999 / 37.3mpg = $0.1072 per mile, on diesel ( 37.3/$3.999= 9.3 miles per dollar )
$3.699 / 34.5mpg = $0.1072 per mile, on gas. ( 34.5/$3.699= 9.3 miles per dollar )
So unless you are getting better than 34.5 combined mpg, the diesel is cheaper to drive per mile.
$3.699 / 20mpg = $0.185 per mile on gas. ( 20/$3.699= 5.4 miles per dollar )
Want to compare this to a hybrid?? My car HAS pulled a broken down 96 Chevy Asto Van loaded with mechanics tool's. I work part time as mechanic and work for this guy from time to time. His engine quit after 372k on his Mobile Mechanic Van. I pulled him home and his van grossed 7k+. I don't think a Prius could do that.
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DimitrisIL
Champion Author Chicago

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:11:15 AM

It's only 2013 and there are already cars that get 35-40mps (not hybrids). 50-55mps by 2025 is more than doable. They have more than 10-12 years to achive it.
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vrossi46
Champion Author San Jose

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:10:54 AM

i sure have my doubts
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Number43
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:09:57 AM

I wouldn't want one of those junk piles. Let them kill someone else's family. I'll keep my older bigger heavier safer car.
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emernal
Champion Author St. Louis

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:09:29 AM

Depends on how much gas prices continue to go up as economy improves.
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Toppers
Champion Author Atlanta

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:07:30 AM

Probably a good if we just get close...
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oldforger
Champion Author Calgary

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:06:45 AM

safety is a real matter
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rippinusoff
Champion Author Lexington

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:06:35 AM

I want my "Obama" gas card...
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Rainy1
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:05:48 AM

Just give me a free gas card for life!!!!
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tomok
Champion Author Portland

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:05:43 AM

U.S. is not likely to reach mandated 54 mpg by 2025, that sounds about right. There is a trade off for high vehicle mpg and the cost of that vehicle. The higher the vehicle mpg, the more that vehicle will cost. With the current economy, how many people can afford one?
The higher the vehicle mpg, the less fuel bought and sold, the more fuel will cost.
There are a variety of vehicle fuels available now, gasoline, diesel, electricity, natural gas, hydrogen, ethanol or a combination of fuels to power the vehicle. If not the previous fuels, what will replace them?
High mpg vehicle? A light weight vehicle with a high fuel efficent engine? An enclosed motorcycle?
'Coming out of the closet' Sneeky's lousy, smoke and mirrors, lack of jobs, dog and pony show and in the crapper economy, the jobs are Not here. Sneeky's economy is not improving but continues to hurt the population and the job numbers continue to be down!
NO More spending gone wild, there has to be a limit!
Four long years before this country's economy will ever begin to recover.
Drive vehicles with high MPG, are very safe, reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money.
The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
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ramgas
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:05:34 AM

Oil lobby too powerful.
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matman01
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:05:27 AM

What a crock...the EPA is a joke!
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AriesMMD
Champion Author Sacramento

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:03:56 AM

They don't want to change from a semi-efficient drive train to a political toy?
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LuckyD43
Champion Author Long Island

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:02:15 AM

I never considered that 54 mpg goal to be realistic anyway. The 40 mpg estimate sounds more plausible because there are some cars today already getting 30+. With today's technology, I believe it is possible to get 40 mpg by 2025.
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rrs517
Champion Author Colorado

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:02:07 AM

Old News
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gafgar
Champion Author Detroit

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:01:55 AM

maybe they could just claim that their vehs get better mpg than they do, just like now.
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liao
Champion Author Montreal

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:01:43 AM

Try harder.
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shea33
Champion Author Pensacola

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:01:15 AM

Nothing we didn't know when the statment was made.
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Neely8
Champion Author Boston

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 11:00:55 AM

Won't happen because the auto manufacturers don't want to spend the extra money, even though it will be better for our environment.
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goalie1950
Champion Author Phoenix

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:59:04 AM

No real surprise here. Just another empty policy from the Obummer administration that has no future of being successful.
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vcsuksu21
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:58:55 AM

i expected that, I guess I qualify as an EPA Engineer
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gsofrs
Champion Author Greensboro

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:53:50 AM

Lofty goal to begin with.
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ZeroBoxes
Champion Author Mississippi

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:52:26 AM

Uhm… educated civil servants with comb-overs and Dunlap disease.
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F81M
Champion Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:52:07 AM

He won't be there long if he keeps saying stuff like that!!
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geezrtek
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:52:03 AM

Old
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bbthegun
Champion Author San Diego

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:51:58 AM

nordlead - while your point about EPA needing engineers is a salient point why is it the EPA sides with leftist junk science nuts 95% of the time then? Doesn't sound like they listen to their own engineers or their engineers are so incompetent that they can't get a private sector job.

Don't worry, I'm not picking on the EPA here, most government workers (>50%) can't get a private sector job either. They aren't smart enough nor have the work ethic to make it.
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livedream
Champion Author Michigan

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:50:23 AM

I'm not surprised.
I will definitely buy an EV before 54 mpg is ever reached.
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dieselfiendSC
Champion Author South Carolina

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Message Posted: Feb 21, 2013 10:50:08 AM

Wow, I would not have guessed, but now that an EPA engineer says so we should listen.
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